Talk:Ben Nevis

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Ben Nevis has been listed as one of the Geography and places good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
November 30, 2006	Good article nominee	Listed
September 22, 2008	Good article reassessment	Kept
December 5, 2024	Good article reassessment	Kept

Current status: Good article

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New height

The article now says "It [...] was remeasured in March 2016 and found to be slightly closer to 1,345 metres (4,413 ft)." The article released by OS is from March 2016, but I would be surprised if they had time to resurvey the peak, process the data, update the map and release this article in 18 days… As shown by one of the images on Flickr, the survey must have been done back in September 2015: https://www.flickr.com/photos/osmapping/25831849046/

I think this is the date that should be used in the article.

There is a problem with rounding in the conversion of heights. The precise value from the OS is 1344.527meters and that rounds up to the headline 1345 meters, but to give the measured height in ft you need to convert before rounding, and so reach the correct height in whole ft (4,411 ft). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.93.9.224 (talk) 22:24, 4 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

First (recorded) ascent date

I have made a change in the date based on reliable sources that the date earlier cited on the website for the first recorded ascent by James Robertson should be 19 August 1771 rather than 17 August 1771. According to Henderson, D.M.; Dickson, J.H. (1994). "A Naturalist in the Highlands: James Robertson his life and travels in Scotland 1767-1771". Edinburgh: Scottish Academic Press: 183. {{cite journal}}: Cite journal requires |journal= (help) the relevant entry transcribed from Robertson's journal reads

August 19th. I ascended Ben Nevis which is reckoned the highest mountain in Britain. The plants on this mountain are similar to those on Ben Awin [apparently Ben Avon] and Carngarm [Cairngorm?], only here, at the West side near the foot I found the M... [illegible?  or missing?] "The rock from top to bottom is a red Granite hardly distinguishable into strata. A third part of the hill towards the top is entirely naked, resembling a heap of stones thrown together confusedly. The summit far overtops all the surrounding hills, tho' those towards the South and South East are very high, and are formed either into Cones, or into a number of rugged peaks, or into long narrow ridges.

The entry for the previous day talks about Fort William, ruling out the possibility that he climbed on 17th and made the diary entry on the 19th. I am sure someone can persuade the NLS to scan up the copies of the relevant journals (or pages) - https://manuscripts.nls.uk/repositories/2/resources/17908 Shyamal (talk) 13:19, 26 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Gaelic name

I don't claim to be able to speak Gaelic, but I've never encountered the spelling Beinn Nebhis before -- I've always seen Beinn Nibheis. A Googlefight gives 41 hits for Nebhis and 1200 for Nibheis. I'm inclined to change this unless anyone can find supporting evidence for the former spelling. ras52 11:58, 10 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The etymology of the name is decidely questionable - the name Ben Nevis is far more likely to predate the invasion of the Scots and comes from the Pictish Ben Nefys - meaning the Head of Nefys. Ben/Pen means head in Pictish/Welsh and is often used to name mountains e.g. Ben Lawers (Scotland), Pen y Fan (South Wales), Pen y Ghent (North of England), etc. Come to Wales and there's loads more. There are lots more examples of pre Scottish (Pictish) names in Scotland e.g Aberdeen, Aberfoyle etc. The Scottish version of Aber is Inver. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.140.201.125 (talk) 20:29, 18 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The use of Pictish in northern Scotland is well known, although beyond the indirect place name evidence you mention little is known of the particulars. (See Scottish island names or the Lunnasting stone for example.) If you have a reliable source for "the Head of Nefys" please let us know. Ben Mac Dui 09:07, 19 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

In any case, one has to hate these florid 'translations' of Gaelic (and other indigenous) names. I would suggest at least removing the word 'literal' in: 'A literal translation would therefore be "the mountain with its head in the clouds"'. That is not a literal translation it is a jolly figurative one. Positively imaginative, in fact. A literal translation would be Mount Pate-Cloud even if one swallows the strained etymology. DruartG (talk) 22:33, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Coincidence, doubtless - because as I remember my history, the Romans would never have had a chance to influence the name - but a latinised spelling of "Nibheis" would presumably be "Nivis". Which, in Latin, means "of snow". "Snowy mountain". 90.204.152.170 (talk) 06:48, 3 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The little evidence there is shows that the Picts spoke a Norse dialect. In Norse 'Nevis' would mean 'Head of Ice'. G W Gardiner (talk) 08:36, 17 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Volunteers

I have reduced the stuff about volunteer effort as it seemed to be using too many words to say a simple idea that volunteers help to maintain a footpath and who organises it... and with no references given. Victuallers (talk) 12:52, 30 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

GA concerns

After reviewing the article, I am concerned that the article might not meet the good article criteria anymore. I have outlined my concerns below:

There are multiple uncited sentences and paragraphs throughout the article.
The climate table seems to cite sources from the early 1900s. Are there any current sources that can be used?

Is anyone willing to address the above concerns? If not, I may nominate this article for WP:GAR. Z1720 (talk) 02:15, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In principle I'd like to help improve this article about my old friend, although (i) I have few hard copy references to use and (ii) I am still stuck here after more than six months! I will try to find the time over the next few days. Ben Mac Dui 10:39, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Ben MacDui: Still interested in working on this? Z1720 (talk) 14:11, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'd love to but I am very busy and otherwise distracted at present. Maybe next month? Ben Mac Dui 18:25, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Ben MacDui: I still haven't brought this to GAR. Are you interested in working on this or should it go there? Z1720 (talk) 02:21, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Z1720: I think it's pretty clear I am not going to have the time to do anything much here soon, so please go ahead. Ben Mac Dui 11:42, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

GA Reassessment

Ben Nevis

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch • Watch article reassessment page • GAN review not found

Result: Kept. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 23:29, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There are multiple uncited sentences and paragraphs throughout the article. The climate table seems to cite sources from the early 1900s. Are there any current sources that can be used? Z1720 (talk) 14:51, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Re the climate data: there was a weather station on the summit until 1904 and "The twenty years worth of readings still provide the most comprehensive set of data on mountain weather in Great Britain", to quote from the article. It would be more than could be expected to have comparable modern data. PamD 18:24, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have sourced the content about Oor Wullie, and expanded and sourced information about the Peace Cairn. PamD 19:23, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Z1720: Could you perhaps sprinkle {{cn}} where the issues are? That would help us fix them. — hike395 (talk) 12:50, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Hike395: I have added cn tags. Some of the uncited information can probably be removed or the citation moved to the end of the sentence. Other information will need research to resolve. Z1720 (talk) 13:04, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, will look at it! — hike395 (talk) 13:10, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hike395 do you still intend to work on this article? No worries if not. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 17:16, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

AirshipJungleman29 I made a bunch of improvements on 5 November, fixing all of the {{cn}} tags, and PamD did further work on 5 November and 12 November. I believe the article now fulfills the good article criteria. — hike395 (talk) 22:23, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thoughts Z1720? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 14:26, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@PamD and AirshipJungleman29: The "History" section does not have any information between 1911 and 2018. Is there any information to add there, perhaps about the growth of tourism to the site or other major events? A smaller quibble is that the lead is missing some information Z1720 (talk) 03:52, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Z1720 This may mean that the history section may need to be updated to reflect more accurate and up-to-date information, and the missing information may need to be added. KOLANO12 3 17:05, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I expanded the lede with a few sentences, to match the article material. I moved the paragraph about finding the piano (in 2006) to the history section. After a fair amount of investigation, I cannot find any notable/encyclopedic historical information about Ben Nevis between 1911 and 2006. The Ben Nevis Race started in 1937, but that is already (properly, IMO) in the "Outdoor recreation" section. Given that there isn't much historical material available post-1911, I still believe that this article fulfills the good article criteria. — hike395 (talk) 20:26, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Z1720 and Kolano123: thoughts? Personally, I think there is enough detail on post-1911 events in the "Outdoor recreation" section. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 11:21, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep I'd like the lead to be expanded to include more of the "Outdoor recreation" information and "In popular culture" but I think this article is in good enough shape. Z1720 (talk) 02:20, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Fwiw, expanded the lede a bit more. — hike395 (talk) 05:33, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]